Category Archives: Hansard

My Lords, our great UK creatives—musicians who make such sweet sounds where otherwise there may be silence; writers who fill the blank page with words of meaning that move us; our photographers; our visual artists—are a creative community contributing billions to the UK economy, growing at twice the rate of the UK economy. In the light of this, why are the Government content for their work, their IP and their copyright to be so disrespected and unprotected in the face of artificial intelligence?

My Lords, I understand that no amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript amendment or to speak in Committee. Unless, therefore, any noble Lord objects, I beg to move that order of commitment be discharged.

Motion agreed.

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this debate. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Snape, on securing it. I declare my interests in the technology field as an adviser to Boston Ltd.

I will speak about accessibility and technology in transport. I begin with buses. In London we are incredibly fortunate with so many of our modes of transport—not least the accessibility of London buses, with their audio-visual output. In 2016 I was privileged to launch Manchester’s talking bus fleet. Other major cities have followed suit. We passed legislation to this effect a number of years ago. When the Minister comes to respond, will he say what this picture is looking like across the country? Is it still down to luck—where you happen to get on a bus—as to whether you can have that audio-visual information that so many of us require?

So-called floating bus stops are those where there is a cycle lane between the pavement, the bus stop and the carriageway where the bus pulls up. How are disabled people supposed to board and alight from those bus services safely and effectively? What equality impact assessment has been done around floating bus stops? It must be clear that buses have to be able to pull up, pick up and drop off at the kerbside, rather than the passenger getting on and off the bus in the middle of nowhere, which is what a floating bus stop feels like. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that it is time for a moratorium on floating bus stops so that a full impact assessment can be undertaken? Will he convene a meeting with the Secretary of State and interested parties to come up with accessible, inclusive solutions—which floating bus stops certainly are not?

Taxis are an incredibly important part of our public transport network. We currently have the ludicrous situation in the City of London where Bank Junction is closed to black cabs on erroneous safety grounds, even though a black cab has never been involved in an accident there. There are similar issues with cabs at Bishopsgate. They are also barred from Tottenham Court Road. Will the Minister consider writing to the City of London Corporation in relation to Bank Junction and Bishopsgate, and to the leader of Camden Council and the Mayor of London in relation to Tottenham Court Road, to establish how these effective bans on our excellent black taxi fleet deliver accessibility and inclusion? How do those various authorities believe that they are complying with their equality duties, not least the public sector equality duty?

Another area is so-called shared space. Many noble Lords may have had the pleasure of not coming across these. They are an architectural and planning folly where roads are made completely wide open. Pavements, kerbstones, signs, road markings, crossings and signals are all taken away in the belief that road users and pedestrians will be able to get on better and be more sympathetic to one another. Buses and blind people, toddlers and tankers are able to interact in this extraordinary utopia. We managed to achieve a moratorium on all new so-called shared space. Can my noble friend the Minister say what is happening with the maintenance costs of all existing shared space developments? How many have had to be retrofitted to make them accessible for their local communities?

More disabled people are gaining employment than at any time in our history, and leisure and social facilities are becoming more accessible and inclusive. Is it not a tragedy if disabled people are not even able to get there for want of accessible transport, or are so stressed by the time they pitch up at work because of the inaccessible transport experience? What an unnecessary burden to put on disabled people across our country. It is wholly avoidable and yet currently not avoided.

I turn to technology. We have an extraordinary opportunity—nothing short of the complete technologisation of all our transport with AI, blockchain and the internet of things. What extraordinary possibilities we have to optimise the transport system and to connect all its vehicles in real time. Emergency vehicles would be able to be given the best route through congested traffic. Congestion would be reduced and efficiency increased. Can my noble friend the Minister comment on how much technology is being used by National Highways and Network Rail—not least to optimise their assets and resources, but also to get ahead of all the safety and maintenance challenges?

Inclusion and innovation are the golden threads that we need to see running through all our transport networks and systems. We can have a 21st-century transport network on all modes. Currently, we surely do not.

In conclusion, does my noble friend the Minister agree that we do not have public transport in this country? We have transport for some of the public, some of the time. Outside London, Manchester or other major cities, there is transport for some of the public, some of the time. For a disabled person or a wheelchair user, for the blind, hearing or cognitive impaired, there is transport for some of the public, some of the time. In reality, all too often there is fully accessible transport for many of our fellow citizens none of the time. Yet we know how to do this through inclusion and innovation. Imagine public transport inclusive by design and accessible by all. Would that not be quite something?

My Lords, I understand that no amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript amendment or to speak in Committee. Unless, therefore, any noble Lord objects, I beg to move that order of commitment be discharged.

Motion agreed.

My Lords, I understand that no amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript amendment or to speak in Committee. Unless, therefore, any noble Lord objects, I beg to move that order of commitment be discharged.

Motion agreed.

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this critically important debate. In doing so, I declare my technology interests as advisor to Boston Ltd. I too congratulate all those involved with the committee—not least its chair, the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, for his potent introduction to this afternoon’s debate—and indeed all the committee staff who have been responsible for putting together an excellent, pertinent and timely report.

I believe that, when it comes to AI across the piece, it is time to legislate and it is time to lead, with principles-based, outcomes-focused, input-understood legislation and regulation. This is no more true than when it comes to AWS. I remember when we did the Lords AI Select Committee report in 2018. With all the media lines that we put out, the one line that the press wanted to focus on was something like, “Killer robots will destroy humanity, says Lords committee”. It was incredibly important then and is incredibly important today. If we have principles-based, right-size regulation, we have some chance of security, safety and stability.

We know how to do that. I will take a previous example of something as significant: IVF. What can be more terrifying and more science fiction than bringing human life into being in a laboratory test tube? Why is it today not only a success but seen as a positive, regular part of our lives? Because of a previous Member of your Lordships’ House, the late and great Lady Warnock, and the Warnock commission publicly engaging on such an important issue. We need similar public engagement, not just on AWS but on all the potential and current applications of AI—and we know how to do that.

I will discuss just one of the recommendations of the report—I agree with pretty much all of them—recommendation 4, which has already been mentioned, rightly, by many noble Lords. Without a meaningful definition, it is difficult to put together a mission, plan and strategy to address optimally the issue of AWS. Can my noble friend the Minister say whether the Government will consider reopening the question of a meaningful definition? That will then help everything that flows from that. Otherwise, I fear that not only are we trying to nail jelly to the wall but it is that serious that we are attempting to nail gelignite to that same wall.

We should feel confident that we know how to legislate for these new technologies. Look at what we did with the Electronic Trade Documents Act last year. We know how to do innovation in this country: look at Lovelace, Turing, Berners-Lee and more. Yes, the Bletchley summit was a great success—although it did not involve defence and many other issues that need to be considered—but perhaps the greatest lesson from Bletchley is not so much the summit but more what happened two generations ago, when a diverse team gathered to deploy the technology of the day to defeat the greatest threat to our human civilisation. Talent and technology brought forth the light at one of the darkest periods of our human history. From 1940s Bletchley to 2020s United Kingdom, we need to act now, not just on AWS but across the piece on human-in-the-loop, human-led and human-over-the-loop AI. It is time to legislate and lead for our safety, security and stability, for our very human civilisation, and for #OurAIFutures.

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, if the concept of “inclusive by design” was thoroughly understood, we would never have had these inaccessible touch-screen devices? Will she go back to the department and ensure that HM Treasury works to ensure that all financial services and products are inclusive designed at every stage?

My Lords, I declare my financial services interest as set out in the register, and I congratulate my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, on his timely Question. There are two issues involved here: access to, and the accessibility of, financial services and products. Both have serious impacts, if not got right, not just for the blind and visually impaired but for all people in our communities. For example, bank notes have never been more accessible, and yet have never been more difficult to access. What further conversations will the Government have with UK Finance and with all financial services organisations to ensure that there is both access to and accessibility of all financial services and products? Without this work, the Government cannot really stand up any claims to financial inclusion.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is the educational attainment gap for blind and visually impaired students at (1) Key Stage 2, (2) GCSE, and (3) A Level; by what date, if any, they aim to eradicate that gap; and what additional research have they undertaken, or do they intend to undertake, to support work in this area.

My Lords, I declare my financial services interests as set out in the register. Does my noble friend agree that, whether paying with a credit card or a debit card, one should be able to do so in an accessible manner? That will happen only if all financial services products and card payment machines are designed with inclusion in mind right from the outset.